Legislature(2009 - 2010)BELTZ 211
03/17/2009 03:30 PM Senate COMMUNITY & REGIONAL AFFAIRS
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| Presentation: Denali Commission | |
| SB129 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
| *+ | SB 129 | TELECONFERENCED | |
SB 129-RESIDENTIAL SPRINKLER SYSTEMS
4:04:50 PM
CHAIR OLSON announced the consideration of SB 129.
MICHAEL ROVITO, Staff to Senator Linda Menard, Alaska State
Legislature, said Senate Bill 129 is a response to a national
movement to requiring residential fire sprinkler systems. SB 129
is to make sure that there won't be a requirement, at the state
or local level, to put sprinklers into one or two-family
dwellings. "There's a lot of costs that are associated with
putting in these sprinkler systems, and a lot of the data
doesn't back up the costs for an extra layer of protection."
Modern construction practices have "fire-prevention processes
already built in," including fire separation and draft stopping.
The added cost of sprinklers to a homeowner is excessive. In
Alaska, more than 33 percent of residences are on private water
wells. They would have to update the water delivery system,
which would have many hidden costs. "Current practices for fire
prevention and fire notification seem to be sufficient enough."
4:07:21 PM
SENATOR FRENCH asked if there is an organization that is now
requiring sprinklers for homes.
MR. ROVITO said, "This comes from an international and national
group that is the international building codes and international
fire codes, if I'm speaking correctly, that's pretty influential
on the legislation." The International Residential Code (IRC)
would mandate fire sprinklers in all new home construction. The
IRC is part of the International Building Code (IRC), which is
widely adopted as law throughout the United States, locally and
statewide. "That has been a push to mandate these sprinklers in
two-family dwellings." The coalition behind it is the IRC, which
often influences state and local governments to adopt the codes.
4:09:13 PM
SENATOR FRENCH asked if Alaska has pledged to follow the
dictates of the IRC.
MR. ROVITO said he has not heard of anyone in Alaska pledging to
do that.
SENATOR FRENCH said, "We would have done it formally as a state
... have we adopted the IRC standards through a statute for our
building codes statewide?"
MR. ROVITO said he doesn't know.
SENATOR MENARD asked if smoke alarm systems that run around $400
are adequate. Homebuilder associations oppose the sprinkler
systems in homes because they feel it is unreasonable.
MR. ROVITO said yes, research has shown that smoke alarms have a
high success rate in preventing fire deaths in their typical
operation. The homebuilders oppose mandating sprinklers because
of the added cost "without empirical evidence showing more
safety against fire deaths." Every $1,000 added to the price of
a house "prices out" hundreds of thousands of people. Sprinkler
systems can cost $4,000, which is incurred by the homebuyer.
4:11:19 PM
SENATOR MENARD said she raised four boys, and one can imagine
how tempting sprinklers are. She has a well, and it is costly to
have tanks. It seems unreasonable to mandate sprinklers systems
in single or double-family homes.
CHAIR OLSON surmised that a home burning down is far more
expensive than a $4,000 sprinkler system.
MR. ROVITO said it could be, but he can't speak on how effective
sprinklers are at saving the home from a fire. "I'm not sure if
they would completely save it."
CHAIR OLSON asked if there are insurance discounts for having
sprinklers.
MR. ROVITO said he didn't know.
CHAIR OLSON said when fire alarms don't work it is because they
become an irritant when the battery runs out, "so people just
disconnect them even though they have been installed and maybe
even been given to them by the local fire department."
MR. ROVITO said he can see where that can be an issue.
CHAIR OLSON said the fire deaths are tragic.
4:13:26 PM
DAVID DILLARD, Builder, 3-2-1 Construction, Fairbanks, said he
has been building homes since 1981. He has done custom building
and retro-fitting, and he has work for State Farm and Allstate
insurance companies. With regard to insurance companies, "I
don't really see where they're going to give a percentage back
for a suppression system like that because, mainly, the water
causes a lot more damage than a lot of the fires do." He is
rebuilding a house right now that burned. He understands that
"they" had to put the fire out, but a lot of the moisture got
into the walls and insulation "and did a lot more damage than
normal." A commercial flooring building had a sprinkler go off,
and it caused hundreds of thousands of dollars in damage. It
could cost up to $10,000 to put a sprinkler system in a home,
depending on how big the home is. The insurance companies that
he has built for "don't want to have to see suppression systems
in there like that because it causes more damage when they do go
off accidentally than the fire ever has done." He wants to be
able to put the sprinklers in if desired. He has built close to
200 houses in the Fairbanks area. He built for three different
fire chiefs in town, and only one wanted the sprinkler system.
The other two fire chiefs didn't "want the liability to have
them in their homes."
CHAIR OLSON asked if the two didn't feel that the sprinklers
were necessary.
4:16:10 PM
MR. DILLARD said yes, but they keep their smoke alarms and
carbon monoxide detectors in good shape. It is hard to legislate
people from themselves, "if they're going to unplug something
that they know it's going to work, how can you protect them from
that?" The systems need to be maintained every year. Fairbanks'
homes need antifreeze. To keep them the systems current will be
expensive, "and a lot of folks just are not going to do it."
People will pull out their smoke alarms because they beep.
4:17:00 PM
DAVID PETERSON, Contractor, Soldotna, said this is not the time
to add costs to a housing market that is hurting. The record
would show that fatal fires are probably in trailer houses not
in new homes. Homes built today are far superior than ones built
10 years ago. He called the guy in Anchorage that is doing his
sprinkler work and was told it will cost up to $12,000 for a
2,000-square-foot ranch house. It could be as much as $16,000
for a 3,500 square foot two-story house, and that is if there is
an adequate water supply. If tanks were needed, it could add
another $10,000. "I don't think we can afford it." The sprinkler
valves can be turned off as easily as turning off a smoke alarm.
CHAIR OLSON asked him about building in the Bush.
MR. PETERSON said there won't be water, so "who's going to pay
for it?" The older homes will burn, not the newer ones.
4:19:06 PM
SENATOR MENARD asked how much a carbon dioxide unit costs.
MR. PETERSON said one probably costs $50 to $75.
ALAN WILSON, Builder, Juneau, said he supports SB 129. He built
a home in Juneau with a sprinkler system, and the cost was over
$10 per square foot three years ago. The cost is now $3 to $4 a
square foot. The cost of housing is already prohibitive. He is
on the Juneau Affordable Housing Commission, which has tackled
the issue of starter homes for working-class young people. A
mandate will not help in that effort.
4:20:35 PM
KYLE CARR, President, Matsu Homebuilder Association, Palmer,
said he represents over 150 member businesses. He is a second
generation general contractor, and he has built several hundred
houses throughout the state. He supports the bill, because the
safety of "our residents" is important to him. The state suffers
many fatalities and million of dollars a year in property loss,
but he feels that we need to help protect the most vulnerable
residents, but they are often on a fixed or modest income. "I
believe the added cost of fire sprinklers would make it very
difficult, if not impossible, for them to afford a new house
with the added protections." The most vulnerable residents would
not benefit at all. It would be in everyone's best interest to
establish a program to encourage the voluntary installation of
all available fire suppression technologies. There is a false
sense of security by putting all eggs in one basket. "If someone
had a fire sprinkler system, they think that's the end all; that
saves everything." It is like people taking smoke detectors off
their ceilings because they think just one in the house is good
enough. "That's very bad. If you were parked on a steep hill and
you put your parking brake on your car, would you crawl under
the back end and never think of the brakes failing? No."
Unfortunately, homeowners with a fire sprinkler think that is
all they need. "We need to think of all the technologies that
are out there that are affordable to everyone." Alaska[ns]
should be able to choose the level of home safety for their own
dwellings. He is in favor of not requiring smoke detectors, but
he would like to see it like the energy ratings. Houses should
be rated on the level of fire protection, and then a 5-star
level could get an interest reduction as an incentive. Maybe it
will require more than fire sprinklers, like fire resistant
paints and all sorts of technology that a person could choose
from. His insurance agent told him that in commercial clauses
there is a stipulation that without proof that fire sprinklers
are checked every year, "your insurance policy is void." So if
there were deaths and the whole house was lost, a person will
lose everything if there is not proof that the system was
maintained. Insurance companies are not really in favor of
sprinklers in Alaska because of the cold climate, the costs, and
rural Alaska. "How could they afford the additional cost?" Even
in the Matsu Valley, almost everyone is on a private well. Many
of the houses he built in the last year get less than three
gallons per minute. "How could they get a bladder system that
could actually sustain enough water for long enough to put out a
fire adequately?"
4:24:20 PM
CHAIR OLSON noted the positive response to the bill.
DAVE MILLER, President, Interior Alaska Building Association,
Fairbanks, said his association supports the bill for all of the
reasons that the committee has already heard. "We don't need to
mandate fire sprinklers in Alaska right now. Bad idea."
DALE BAGLEY, Realtor, Soldotna, said he is representing the
Kenai Peninsula Builders Association. The 2009 IRC mandates
residential sprinkler systems. It will add considerable cost to
residential construction. The slow-down of the economy makes it
the wrong time to do this. Hard-wired smoke detector systems are
much more important.
4:26:20 PM
CHAIR OLSON asked if it is easier to sell a house with a
sprinkler system.
MR. BAGLEY said he doesn't know. He is not so sure that a home
with a sprinkler system is better due to the damage that could
happen if it accidentally goes off.
JIM BYRON, President, Ketchikan Building Association, Ketchikan,
said he represents the Southern Southeast Building Association
and he supports SB 129. Over half of Ketchikan has roof water
catchment systems. Pumps bring the water into the house. A
sprinkler system will double the cost of everything. He was
involved in one installation that cost over $30,000, and that's
not the kind of money we need to be spending right now. Smoke
detectors are $50 a piece and work great.
4:28:07 PM
PAUL MICHELSON, President, Alaska State Homebuilders, Anchorage,
said he is not the leader "of this." He sat on the National
Association for Homebuilders Construction Codes and Standards
committee for 14 years. He sat on the International Code
Conference (ICC) for two cycles. He sat on the Fire and Life
Safety committee. He is currently on the Plumbing and Mechanical
committee for the ICC. The ICC competes with the IFC, and it is
all about a battle of funds to write the manuals.
MR. MICHELSON said he built a house with a sprinkler system that
cost over $38,000. He lost two home sales in a neighborhood
because the plat required a sprinkler system. The owner refused
to have one. "Insurance companies won't talk on this subject
because of the unknown out there." Water causes more damage than
fire and is tough to mitigate. Once a house has mold or has that
suspicion, "you are going to be dropped ... and you're not going
to be picked up until you can prove 100 percent that all the
mold has been remediated out of the property altogether, and
that's almost an impossibility to do." The south has mold
problems, but it grows in the north. A well that produces less
than 10 gallons a minute will need a 300 to 600-gallon storage
system and an assist pump. A fire will turn off the pump, so
"your sprinkler system is basically null and void anyway."
4:31:06 PM
MR. MICHELSON said the state doesn't have jurisdiction over the
IRC; it has jurisdiction over the IBC and IFC. The IBC requires
triplexes and above to have sprinkler systems, and not all
jurisdictions enforce that. It is also in the body of the code
of the IFC. It was introduced in the 2009 IRC code body, and it
is not out yet. In 2006 it was in the appendix, which gave
guidelines for how to install a sprinkler system. The fire
coalition is talking about reducing the recommendation of a "13-
D or a 13-R". "Now you're partially sprinklering a house." The
true push behind all this is a company called Tyco, which is a
multi-billion dollar company that sells a low-flow head, and it
stands to make a lot of money because the average home needs 8
to 12 $50 sprinkler heads. The money goes into one company's
pocket. Insurance companies usually offer a discount of 5 to 10
percent [to have a sprinkler system].
4:33:24 PM
MR. MICHELSON said a mayor built a house and his kids busted a
sprinkler head, so he was dropped from his current insurance
company. He couldn't insure his house for 18 months. It was a
$650,000 house that was uninsurable.
The committee took a brief at-ease.
4:35:15 PM
KATHIE WASSERMAN, Executive Director, Alaska Municipal League
(AML), Juneau, said the AML is opposed to SB 129. Municipalities
are usually the first responders to fires. Section 4 states that
a municipality may not, for any purpose, require a sprinkler
system in a residential single or double family building. If
municipalities want to require sprinklers, it should be a
locally-based decision. Every municipality may not wish to
require them, but it should be a local option.
CHAIR OLSON asked if residential fire deaths have declined,
especially in rural Alaska, in the past two decades.
MS. WASSERMAN said she doesn't think so.
CHAIR OLSON asked why not.
MS. WASSERMAN said she doesn't know. There have been a lot of
rural fires. "Maybe we just hear about them more." She is not a
fire expert.
CHAIR OLSON asked about mandating sprinklers in certain size
dwellings.
MS. WASSERMAN said rural Alaskans live in smaller houses.
CHAIR OLSON said the contractors who have testified have been
building in urban areas.
4:38:12 PM
MS. WASSERMAN said her point is that the bill takes away the
local option.
DEBBIE WHITE, Real Estate Broker, Juneau, said she is the
president of the Southeast Board of Realtors. She wondered if an
insurance company can claim that water damage is flood damage,
and a lot of homes can't get flood insurance. She is concerned
about a home or homeowner being tainted with claim history. Once
a home has had a claim, it can be difficult, expensive, or
impossible to get homeowner's insurance. She said teenaged boys
can be very mischievous. She just sold a home with a sprinkler
system, and that system had to be brought up to snuff. There was
only one person in Juneau who was qualified to service it within
60 days. "The local guys here in town are not interested in
working on a dry system, so that puts you with just the wet
systems." There are not enough people to work on the systems
that are in Juneau. She is part of the Alaska Association of
Realtors. The exemption should include threeplexes and
fourplexes to be consistent with lending guidelines. She thinks
people will monkey with the sprinkler systems rendering them
ineffective.
4:41:42 PM
DAVID TYLER, State Fire Marshall, Department of Public Safety,
Anchorage, said this legislation affects assisted-living and
overnight day-care buildings where people really need the
protection. There is some misunderstanding on code adoption. The
state has not adopted the IRC - some of the local jurisdictions
have. Just because it is adopted doesn't mean it all has to be
adopted. "There is nothing stating that you have to do the whole
sprinkler system if it's adopted through regulation on the state
level. So whether it's in appendix P or in the main body, it
really doesn't matter -- it has to be adopted through regulation
to be included."
CHAIR OLSON said regulations and statutes differ. Statutes
require a committee process where the issues are vetted.
Regulations are adopted and have the force of law without public
input. "You ... may be protecting us from ourselves."
MR. TYLER said there is a public hearing process before adopting
a regulation.
CHAIR OLSON asked if he has an example where sprinklers in homes
have been appropriate.
4:44:00 PM
MR. TYLER said there has never been a fire fatality in a home
with an operating sprinkler system. Never.
CHAIR OLSON said he has never seen anybody survive having
pneumonia caused by mold.
MR. TYLER said there is the same problem with leaky toilets.
Water gets in houses when there is a water system. A sprinkler
system is on the same playing field.
CHAIR OLSON said there are people in the room who might not
agree with that.
MR. TYLER said water is water.
CHAIR OLSON said water coming out of eight or ten sprinkler
heads goes down the walls into the basement. There a difference
between a sprinkler head spraying all over the house and into
the carpet and overflow from a flush toilet in terms of mold.
4:45:34 PM
DOUG SCHRAGE, President, Alaska State Fire Chiefs Association,
Deputy Chief of the Anchorage Fire Department, said he believes
strongly in the merits of sprinklers, but the debate is about
local control. Fire chiefs face staffing, deployment, equipment,
and facility decisions based on the prevalence of water and
sprinkler systems, travel distance, and geography. By precluding
the option for fire officials to use sprinklers to mitigate
other factors, such as long travel distances, takes away an
effective tool for local fire chiefs. Precluding a municipality
from adopting the code could reduce developments. Subdivisions
in Anchorage are required to have two access roads if there are
30 or more homes. There can be an exemption if sprinkler systems
are installed. Many current developments are occurring in
geographical areas that preclude a second road.
4:48:36 PM
MR. SCHRAGE said fire protection is a local decision and
shouldn't be precluded by a blanket statute. This debate should
be about who should make this decision, but he would like to
speak to the inaccuracies he has heard today on the merits of
sprinkler systems. Fire service professionals believe in smoke
and carbon monoxide detectors, but those devises only alert the
occupants - when they are functioning -- and they do nothing to
protect them. There was testimony that modern building codes
have made dwellings safer, but homes are more and more relying
on lightweight construction. There are flimsy trusses fabricated
out of light-weight wood and fastened with fasteners that
penetrate a short distance into the wood and very rapidly
collapse under the heat of a fire. Sprinklers protect
firefighters and occupants. The failure rate for sprinkler
systems is one in 35 million. They are very reliable. The water
damage from a low-flow sprinkler head is far less than the hoses
used by firefighters, which spray water at 250 to 350 gallons
per minute. He heard testifiers inflating the cost of the
systems. The actual cost is much less.
4:51:30 PM
MR. SCHRAGE said communities should have the option of requiring
residential sprinklers. There was a 20 percent increase in the
number of licensed assisted-living facilities in Alaska in the
past two years. These are residential homes used for taking care
of the elderly and infirm. These people have four times the risk
of average residents. The size of this vulnerable population is
increasing. Fire officials should have the option of considering
sprinklers for their own communities as a measure to protect
these vulnerable people. The Fire Chiefs Association's mission
is to serve Alaskans by influencing fire and emergency services,
programs, and legislation and to provide for the safety of
firefighters and their communities. SB 129 stands in contrast to
that mission.
4:52:52 PM
SENATOR FRENCH said it isn't clear to him if Alaska has adopted
the IRC. Is Alaska bound by the IRC?
MR. SCHRAGE said the residential code is adopted by local
municipalities. In Anchorage, when the new code comes out, the
municipality adopts the code but not in its entirety. The
Anchorage assembly amends out certain provisions. He predicts
that when it is time to adopt the 2009 code, the city will amend
out the sprinkler code, over his objections. It is not a state
issue, it is a local issue.
CHAIR OLSON asked how long he has been working in Anchorage.
MR. SCHRAGE said 24 years.
CHAIR OLSON asked if residential fire fatalities have declined.
MR. SCHRAGE said fatalities statewide have declined somewhat,
and in Anchorage the rate has remained steady. He isn't sure
about rural rates. Most of the fire fatalities involve children.
4:54:48 PM
CHAIR OLSON asked what could be done besides installing fire
sprinklers in order to drop the rate of fatalities.
MR. SCHRAGE said he works very hard on that. It is a combination
of codes, public education, prevention, enforcement, building
plan reviews, staffing, and rapid response.
4:55:49 PM
DAVE MILLER, President, Alaska State Firefighters Association,
Sitka, stated his opposition to SB 129. Municipalities should
decide. Chief Schrage brought up a lot of great points, and Mr.
Miller agrees with everything he said. Sprinklers will save
lives and property, and 15 years ago he would have spoken on the
other side. But there are great sprinkler systems now, even for
rural communities. There are 4,000 firefighters in Alaska, and
about 400 are fully paid. Alaska is lacking half of the
volunteers that it needs. Many communities don't have mutual aid
- a firefighter in Sitka can't call anyone to help. In Wasilla,
they could call Palmer or Anchorage to help. A sprinkler system
for the isolated communities would be a huge advantage. Many
communities have no protection, and with a shortage of
volunteers, even having equipment won't help. "This is a way to
stop that fire, slow that fire down. It will save lives. "I'm
opposed to 129."
4:59:44 PM
JEFF TUCKER, Fire Chief, North Star Fire Department, North Pole,
said he is also vice president of the Alaska Fire Chiefs
Association, and he is speaking for the Interior Fire Chiefs.
There is no mandate for fire sprinklers. The IFC is code
standard that is locally adopted. SB 129 would take away that
local option. Local policy makers and the public make a decision
for what is appropriate for their area, and SB 129 takes that
away. Two people died in Fairbanks in an assisted-living
facility. That led to the local community adopting a sprinkler
ordinance for an assisted-living facility with two or more
people. The bill would preclude any community for making that
decision for these high risk populations. A smoke detector is
passive like the seat belt. A fire sprinkler is like the air
bag. He is strongly opposed to SB 129.
5:03:00 PM
JAMES BAISDEN, Chief, Nikiski Fire Department, Nikiski, said he
has been in the fire service for 25 years. He opposes SB 129 and
said that 30 years ago this discussion would have occurred with
residential smoke detectors. Sprinkler technology has
progressed. From his experience, sprinkler systems save lives.
If SB 129 passes, will the state then say that sprinklers can't
be mandated in schools, places of assembly, hotels or hospitals?
These requirements save lives. We're killing people now in our
single-family homes. Alaska is protecting business structures,
hospitals, and schools, and it should do the same for the places
where people spend most of their time. The elderly and children
can't protect themselves - "that's what this is designed to do."
Taking the option away from local municipalities is wrong. He
used to be a deputy fire marshal for the state. When the state
of Alaska adopts its codes, it does not adopt the IRC. It has to
be done by municipalities. This bill is not appropriate. The
local fire chief and government should be allowed to provide
protection for their citizens. This bill won't allow it. It
should always be up to the state to adopt the minimum building
fire codes, and he wants to make sure that people know that
"when the state fire marshal's office adopts the international
codes, again, they're not adopting the international residential
code. That has to be done on the local municipal level." It
doesn't need to be in this bill.
5:05:55 PM
ERIC WILCOX, Fire Marshal, Kenai Fire Department, City of Kenai,
said he opposes SB 129. "It needs to be left up to the local
jurisdiction to adopt the IRC. It's already set up to work that
way; it needs to be left that way, so we have that tool still
available to us."
MR. ROVITO said there are two sides to this. Fire professionals
are against SB 129 and homebuilders are for it. The bill leaves
the option for a homeowner to install sprinkler systems, it just
doesn't allow a local or state government to mandate them for a
one or two-family dwelling. Both sides brought up good points.
He noted the added costs, especially in cases of private wells.
"If you add this money to the cost of a home and they pay the
extra cost, what's to say they're not just going to turn off the
sprinkler system, and they have been charged this extra cost and
it's not doing anything to help their home." The risk for the
system to go off prematurely exposes homeowners to house damage.
If a smoke detector goes off erroneously, there is no long-term
damage. SB 129 seeks to prevent a mandatory rule on the local or
state level of requiring fire sprinkler systems in one or two-
family dwellings.
CHAIR OLSON held over SB 129.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|---|---|
| SB129 AAR Letter.pdf |
SCRA 3/17/2009 3:30:00 PM |
SB 129 |
| SB129 AFCA Letter.pdf |
SCRA 3/17/2009 3:30:00 PM |
SB 129 |
| SB129 NAHB.pdf |
SCRA 3/17/2009 3:30:00 PM |
SB 129 |
| SB129 MHBA Letter.pdf |
SCRA 3/17/2009 3:30:00 PM |
SB 129 |
| SB129 Housing Economics Article.pdf |
SCRA 3/17/2009 3:30:00 PM |
SB 129 |
| SB129 Fire Alarms.pdf |
SCRA 3/17/2009 3:30:00 PM |
SB 129 |
| SB129 Death Rate Charts.pdf |
SCRA 3/17/2009 3:30:00 PM |
SB 129 |
| SB129 Causes of Fire.pdf |
SCRA 3/17/2009 3:30:00 PM |
SB 129 |
| SB129 KPBA Letter.doc |
SCRA 3/17/2009 3:30:00 PM |
SB 129 |
| SB129 IABA Letter.pdf |
SCRA 3/17/2009 3:30:00 PM |
SB 129 |
| SB129 MHBA Letter.pdf |
SCRA 3/17/2009 3:30:00 PM |
SB 129 |
| SB129 ResidentialFireSprinklers.com.pdf |
SCRA 3/17/2009 3:30:00 PM |
SB 129 |
| SB129 SEABIA Letter.pdf |
SCRA 3/17/2009 3:30:00 PM |
SB 129 |
| SB129 SFPE Article.pdf |
SCRA 3/17/2009 3:30:00 PM |
SB 129 |
| SB129 Sponsor Statement.doc |
SCRA 3/17/2009 3:30:00 PM |
SB 129 |
| SB129 Talking Points.pdf |
SCRA 3/17/2009 3:30:00 PM |
SB 129 |
| SB129 Talking Points 2.pdf |
SCRA 3/17/2009 3:30:00 PM |
SB 129 |